Whether you love or hate the game, the musical score for LucasArts’ Kinect Star Wars is impressive.
And, before anyone says anything, I’m talking about the actual orchestrated pieces, not that infamous “I’m Han Solo” song. With a musical feel that evokes the feeling of the films themselves, you’d probably be surprised to learn that the tracks were not composed by Star Wars composer John Williams.
Recently, I had the chance to talk to the composers of Kinect Star Wars, Gordy Haab and Kyle Newmaster, about their history in composing music, their inspiration for the Kinect Star Wars score, and their love of the Star Wars franchise.
So you guys worked together doing music for Kinect Star Wars and Star Wars: The Old Republic. How did you two come to get involved in doing music for LucasArts and Star Wars?
Gordy Haab: About six or seven years ago, Kyle and I had written some music for a YouTube video, Ryan vs. Dorkman 2. We recorded it with full orchestra and it was this video of two guys fighting with lightsabers for like five minutes. It was really hilarious, people really liked it, and it got really popular. A friend of mine who worked at LucasArts had seen it and passed it around the office. They were looking for a composer for an Indiana Jones game, so they called me up and asked me if I wanted to work on that, which eventually led to me getting to work on Star Wars: The Old Republic. They liked what I did there and that sort of snowballed into a working relationship with LucasArts.
Kyle Newmaster: Just to clear up something, there’s a bit of confusion about The Old Republic. I wasn’t actually one of the composers on it. I was an orchestrator and an additional composer. On The Old Republic there were five main composers. It was Gordy and four other guys, and I was brought in to help that team. So I wrote a few things for it and one of the pieces was included in the Soundtrack selection Glory, The Galactic Republic which won a G.A.N.G (Game Audio Network Guild) Award. But I was actually only involved in a few pieces and the orchestration. As Gordy said, we worked together on Ryan vs. Dorkman 2 and we worked together on a lot of films and he was the one that brought me on to do Kinect Star Wars, which was actually my first co-credit as a game composer.
It seems like you guys have worked together for some time now. How did you guys meet?
GH: We met at the Henry Mancini Institute, which was a summer program for young musicians just graduating college, around that level of experience. Unfortunately, it doesn’t exist anymore. Anyway, there were about 100 musicians that were playing in the orchestra and they had about five to seven composers that were also part of the program.
KN: It was people from all over the world too. I think they represented about 30 different countries. We were there for about a month during the summer writing music for the orchestra. We were both composers and that’s how we got to know each other. When you’re composers there, you’re locked in the composing room and you kinda get to know each other really well there. You get to know a lot of great musicians there and that’s how we originally met and happened to end up moving to Los Angeles at around the exact same time. So, of course, you end up working together and trying to get to know the town.
How did you each get started in composing?
KN: I think we each have similar stories. I grew up just loving music and as a kid and I was obsessed with Star Wars and Indiana Jones and all the John Williams scores and the scores from the 80s. A lot of the epic scores. And so I grew up interested music in general, so I took piano lessons and I got into the trumpet, taking the “playing in band” approach. In college, I started writing music and I realized film might be a possibility to make a living as a composer. Even way back in the day as a little kid, I think I always wanted to be a composer, but then as I developed by playing piano and trumpet and going through college, I realized I could really make a living at it and just started doing. With being a composer, it’s not like you get out of school and they tell you, “Here’s a composing job with a salary.” Instead, you just have to sort of say “I’m a composer!” and just start doing it and hope for the best.
GH: For me, I had a similar start to my interest in composing music. When I was about six or seven years old, the definitive moment where I decided I wanted to do this was seeing E.T. in theaters and remembering all the themes and all the music but not one character’s name. It was pretty obvious what I latched onto there. And I just thought it was interesting how the music made you feel the way you felt and was just such a big part of the story as well.
From there, I started getting really into writing songs and learning instruments and, by the time I was in high school, it was this full blown passion for composing music, which led to studying privately for music competitions and snowballed into continuing into a university setting. And I always knew I wanted to do film music because that’s what my first love was, which meant that I would inevitably need to move out to LA and give it a go. So I moved out here to go to USC for a graduate program in scoring film.
KN: And you went to Virginia for your undergrad, right?
GH: Yeah, I went to Virginia Commonwealth University, which wasn’t really that well known.
KN: I went to a small school in Wisconsin for my undergrad and went to Eastman School of Music for my Masters.
GH: So we both kind of went from a small school to a big school.
KN: And then to LA.
Listening to the tracks you did for the game, the music has a very John Williams feel to it and feels right at home within the Star Wars universe. What helped you capture that feel? Did you two listen to a lot of John Williams’ music for the films or just watch the movies themselves to get a feel of what would fit within the world of Star Wars?
GH: Being Star Wars, we knew the assignment in itself was to just live in that universe, so the first place for inspiration was to listen to the Star Wars scores. And, like I said about our background, we’re both really interested in that music. We’re fans of it. It’s a part of the fabric of my being, in a sense, so writing music in that style just comes sort of naturally to me.
KN: I think that growing up as a kid when those movies came out and experiencing the effect it had on the culture had a lot to do with it. If you’re a music kind of person and you’re around that, it’s just part of your being. And, you know, we went to school and studied this sort of thing and studied a few John Williams scores and learned how he did things and his techniques. But ultimately, it was just going back and remembering how this music makes you feel and just going for that and going for the same overall sound that ended up inspiring us. That’s sort of where I shot from.
GH: I think Kyle and I are from the same small window of age demographic that was really inspired by John Williams. That’s what we were listening when we were about six to ten years old. There’s something about being that age. We weren’t teenagers studying music and heard it for the first time. We knew there was something there we liked and we just absorbed it before we even knew how to write music or even what music really was. That’s what we heard and it became a really big part of it.
KN: Aside from just the inspiration, we definitely sat down and studied some scores and talked about techniques and inspirations to make sure we were both on the same page with how to go about writing the music so it wouldn’t sound like two completely different composers. When we’ve worked together in the past, we’ve done the same kind of thing where we check up on each other every couple of days and say “Here’s what I’ve been doing” and “I’ve been trying this, so maybe you can try that” and vice-verse. So we’re constantly analyzing what we’re doing and making sure it fits together and that we’re still hitting a similar Star Wars sound.
So there was definitely a lot of working off of each other, it seems.
GH: Yeah.
KN: Definitely.
Being fans of Star Wars and John Williams, what was it like working on a Star Wars title?
GH: Intimidating. But also exciting because this was the music that inspired us to do this in the first place. So it’s like a dream job. But, it’s also nerve-wracking knowing that there are some big shoes to fill. And also, there’s such a huge fanbase for this music already. There’s like a billion people out there that are fans of Star Wars. So when you’re writing music for such a huge franchise, you know that you’re going to be scrutinized for how close you got to the established music of the franchise. So it’s intimidating to look at a blank page and know that, at the end of the day, it has to live up to a billion people’s expectations. But, at the same time, because I’m also a fan of that, it’s exciting to know that you get to create something so cool and see it come to fruition, especially with the greatest orchestra in the world playing your music. How can that not be inspiring, you know?
KN: Star Wars has been a part of my life since I was a kid, so to be a part of it is just an amazing thing. It’s a great franchise and the chance to record with the London Symphony Orchestra was like a dream come true. And then, to see it in the game itself and see how they used what we wrote and watch it alongside Star Wars visuals is a pretty cool thing.
GH: Playing the game, I was just having fun with it. Then, after a while, I actually realized that I had forgotten that the music that was accompanying the game was music I had written. It was a pretty amazing feeling because you get to live in this universe you’re already a fan of and separate yourself from it for a second and realize that the music really does work in this world and it’s just fun to think that you created that part of it.
Having worked in both film and video games, how different is it scoring for a game than it is for a film?
KN: With scoring a film, it’s a whole different process as you’re writing for very specific moments. The film, at this point, is set and it’s not going to change. It’s a final copy of the film that you’re seeing without music and you’re writing to hit specific points that will enhance the moment and be the same every time you watch it. It’s an amazing experience, but the cool thing about games is that it’s going to be different every time. So, in writing the music for a game, you’re essentially writing music for the sake of writing music.
You’re trying to write a solid piece of music that will enhance the game in a variety of different ways because every person that plays the game will have a different experience. They’ll most likely be doing something different when a certain piece of music plays. You have to sort of imagine somebody playing the game. You don’t have anything you’re actually writing to. You just have a concept and it gives you a little more freedom in how you write music.
GH: Both have parameters that you have to fulfill. With film, there’s a very set timeline and you have to enhance very specific moments that never change. But with games, it’s more about creating one mood as an element. It’s like if you know a particular scene in the game is supposed to be uplifting, scary, or whatever it may be, the music has to maintain that particular mood for that period of time so that, no matter what you’re doing for the game, the mood isn’t changing. And if the mood is set to change, you build a different element for that.
When we were writing for the pod race, the entire race is supposed to be exciting so we wrote a piece of music that was exciting and could continuously loop on itself. Then, we’re you’re in the last lap of the race, depending on whether or not you’re like to win or lose, there’s a different piece of music for that; an uplifting and exciting sort of piece if you’re set to win in that last lap or an exciting, but defeated sounding piece if you’re losing. And when you win, there’s a first prize fanfare, as opposed to coming in third, where there’s still a fanfare, but it’s not as exciting. So building these elements, it’s like setting up these building blocks for putting together a score as opposed to film, where there’s a timeline set for you.
KN: As I said earlier, it’s kinda like writing a piece on its own that the programmers will then use it. You’re going for one mood and writing as much music as you can to fulfill that one parameter and then you have to imagine the next that will happen. In film, it’s all there in front of you. It’s very obvious with a game that you have to plan ahead for what might happen.
GH: There’s a lot of visualizing since we’re not looking at actual graphics or gameplay. We’re looking at concept art mostly and, in the very beginning stages, spreadsheets describing what the scene might be like or a couple of storyboards and a screenshot now and then.
KN: It’s more concept oriented.
GH: Definitely more concept oriented, which is actually very liberating in a lot of ways because the parameters in film put this hard timeline on the music. Without that, you can almost do anything as long as it’s within the right style or mood.
KN: In film, you’re the last part of the process. In the game world, you’re right in the middle, helping create the game with everyone else. You’re part of the team in the actual process of making the game.
You two are obviously big Star Wars fans. Which of the films is your favorite?
GH: The Empire Strikes Back.
KN: The Empire Strikes Back.
Yeah. That one is definitely my favorite too.
KN: I like all the originals, but for me, the order would have to go Empire first, then the original, then Return of the Jedi, maybe Revenge of the Sith, The Phantom Menace, and Attack of the Clones.
GH: That’s pretty much my exact order.
KN: I think Revenge of the Sith had some really good things in it. It was cool to see it tell the story of how it all went down, even if everything didn’t happen the way I’d hoped it would.
GH: That one is probably my favorite of the prequels. And the music was awesome. It’s definitely one of my favorite scores for sure.
KN: The music in the prequels was actually pretty incredible.
GH: It really is. Listening side by side, I would say that, musically speaking, it’s much more crafty and thought out in the prequels. You can tell that John Williams got better.
KN: I don’t think I would say he got better, but he changed.
GH: He changed and sort of matured. His sound sort of matured and, harmonically, he went different places than he had gone in the originals. I mean, I love the originals, I think they’re great pieces of music, but you can definitely see the evolution of his music over time and it came through in the prequels for me.
KN: He’s on a crazy high level with his writing. Studying those scores is like studying some of the best classical music. But yeah, I think he just changed, I wouldn’t say better, just different.
Is there anything you two are working on now that we should look forward to?
GH: Yes. But I can’t talk about it.
So it’s one of those things.
KN: With games, there’s a couple of potential things for me. They’re a little more hush-hush about things, as opposed to film, where they usually announce it right away. Even at the very beginning. I just finished a film called Something Wicked and it’s already on IMDb and hopefully it’ll be distributed within the next couple of months to half a year. With games, you can’t really say anything until the game is out, really.
GH: In the film world, I’m starting on a new project that’s actually the second installment of a film I scored about five or six years ago called Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon. It’s a prequel/sequel to that film, so I’m starting to gather my ideas for that. In the gaming world, there’s two things I’m working on, but neither one I can talk about. All I can say is that they’re both really cool and I’m excited for both of them. I can’t wait until I can talk more about them. I wish it was different because I just want to tell the world, “Hey, check out this thing I get to do.” But I can’t talk about it until it’s out, which will be like a year from now.
Well, I look forward to hearing more about it when the time is right. When it comes to writing music, do you prefer making music for film or video games?
KN: We both work pretty evenly in film and games. The way our careers started out, doing mostly film and then moving into games, we have contacts in both worlds. It’s great to be able to work on projects in both mediums. Though, I think nowadays, more than in the past, musical scores for games are highly respected and I think a lot of the best composers are able to do both, whereas ten years ago you were either in one or the other. Then you had guys like Michael Giacchino Start crossing over from games into films.
GH: There’s a lot of film guys that are crossing over. And how can you blame them? The budgets are in games right now. Being someone that works in both film and games, the value they place on the level of production in games seems to be a little higher.
KN: It depends on the project you’re working on.
GH: Well yeah, if you’re working on a big summer blockbuster, then maybe you can go to London for a week and record with the London Symphony Orchestra. With games, a high percentage are using a full orchestra and have that kind of budget, whereas in film, the B-level movies aren’t doing that. They’re expecting it to be synthesized to save money. You can do a lot with that, but it seems with games, there’s a higher value placed on the orchestra and production level.
KN: There’s some film and TV productions that do have that right off the bat and others that don’t. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the music comes at the end in film but more at the beginning with games, so they plan ahead.
GH: If anything has happened with the budget over the course of the filmmaking process or they go over budget everywhere else, what’s getting cut is the very last thing, which is usually the music. In games, we usually don’t hit that level of the budget being spent till the end. Since we’re still part the middle of the project, we reap the rewards of the budget still being intact.
Well, that’s all the questions I have for you. Thanks for your time, guys.
KN: Cool. Thanks a lot.
GH: Yeah, thanks for having us.
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Kinect Star Wars is currently available from LucasArts for the Xbox 360.